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	<title>Comments on: The Use of Mountain Bikes for Search and Rescue</title>
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	<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/</link>
	<description>The bloke that knows sh!t loads of dead cool stuff about search...</description>
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		<title>By: Kris Manning</title>
		<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Manning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://re-search.org.uk/?p=159#comment-655</guid>
		<description>Thanks Johnnie,

Has Rob got your contact details? I&#039;ll give you a shout about coming along to see the bikes (or bike training) in action.

   Kris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Johnnie,</p>
<p>Has Rob got your contact details? I&#8217;ll give you a shout about coming along to see the bikes (or bike training) in action.</p>
<p>   Kris</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnie</title>
		<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://re-search.org.uk/?p=159#comment-654</guid>
		<description>How do bikes compare to foot searchers?

They typically search at four times the pace with a considerably lower POD.  How much lower depends on the terrain.  Whether or not you deploy them depends on a number of factors.  If you are looking for a misper type with a large track offset figure then bikes are a less desirable tactic than for a misper who is more likely to remain on or near the path.  They are limited as riders to the type of terrain they can search, but the searcher&#039;s ability to dismount increases their flexibility.  I believe bikes are good for the quick hits, or &#039;low hanging fruit&#039; in business jargon.  Ideally I would search a R&amp;P with bikes, dogs, and foot teams.  I favour using very hasty resources (runners and bikes) in the early stages to increase the survival chances of the easier to find mispers.  This is partly because Rob has convinced me (through mathmatics, examples and exercises) that speeding up a search has a disproportionately small effect on POD, and partly because of the time=survivability principle.

All of my Search Controllers have done our bike searching course, so rather than looking at bike searchers, they have searched by bike in real conditions and understand the resource and its limitations well.  A Search Controller needs to do it to understand it (I did some kayak search training with WilSAR to better understand this resource, even though I hate being in the water) ;-)

Bikes suit our terrain, and misper types, in some searches.  Sometimes we deploy them, sometimes we don&#039;t.  I would not wish to tell any other unit which resources they should have, or when to deploy them, but I do believe it is best practice to try something before discounting it.  Go on, give bike searching a try! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do bikes compare to foot searchers?</p>
<p>They typically search at four times the pace with a considerably lower POD.  How much lower depends on the terrain.  Whether or not you deploy them depends on a number of factors.  If you are looking for a misper type with a large track offset figure then bikes are a less desirable tactic than for a misper who is more likely to remain on or near the path.  They are limited as riders to the type of terrain they can search, but the searcher&#8217;s ability to dismount increases their flexibility.  I believe bikes are good for the quick hits, or &#8216;low hanging fruit&#8217; in business jargon.  Ideally I would search a R&amp;P with bikes, dogs, and foot teams.  I favour using very hasty resources (runners and bikes) in the early stages to increase the survival chances of the easier to find mispers.  This is partly because Rob has convinced me (through mathmatics, examples and exercises) that speeding up a search has a disproportionately small effect on POD, and partly because of the time=survivability principle.</p>
<p>All of my Search Controllers have done our bike searching course, so rather than looking at bike searchers, they have searched by bike in real conditions and understand the resource and its limitations well.  A Search Controller needs to do it to understand it (I did some kayak search training with WilSAR to better understand this resource, even though I hate being in the water) <img src='http://re-search.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Bikes suit our terrain, and misper types, in some searches.  Sometimes we deploy them, sometimes we don&#8217;t.  I would not wish to tell any other unit which resources they should have, or when to deploy them, but I do believe it is best practice to try something before discounting it.  Go on, give bike searching a try! <img src='http://re-search.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kris Manning</title>
		<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Manning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://re-search.org.uk/?p=159#comment-636</guid>
		<description>Hi Johnnie,

I&#039;m not sure where to start on this. I&#039;ll start from the bottom and work up :)

So, as you quite rightly point out, there are no sacred cows, and as such I am challenging the use of Bikes as a detection resource (not as any other form of resource) - As I&#039;ve always said I am open minded on their use, so prove their worth for detection or at least provide more &#039;evidence based&#039; information on them. I&#039;m happy to come and look at them in action and the training but to be frank I&#039;ve seen people cycling before and I&#039;m not sure that the physical act of watching them search proves that they are a good detection resource.

As for &#039;make finds&#039; well any search resource can make a find. Even a blind man can find a misper if he trips over one.

Of course Dogs don&#039;t cube, but when you have their scenting ability you don&#039;t need to! Bikes cant be squeezed into a foot model but how do bikes compare to foot searchers? 

If search managers are going to use bikes as a search resource and to deploy them effectively then there needs to be more infomation than &#039;they make finds&#039; and &#039;cant be decided on forums&#039; 

Daryl &gt;&gt; Does the handler or the supporter &#039;cube&#039; when searching? (just interested in knowing)

I&#039;d just like to see some objective information on the use of bikes for detection so that I (as a Search Manager) can decide on when/where to deploy bikes for detection. The fact that they are fast isnt good enough. 

1. Would other search managers out there deploy bikes as a detection resource?

2. If so, what are the parameters that you use for this?

3. If you specifically dont use bikes for detection, why not?

Do UKLSI include the use of bikes as a detection resource in their SC training? If so, what are the parameters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johnnie,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where to start on this. I&#8217;ll start from the bottom and work up <img src='http://re-search.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So, as you quite rightly point out, there are no sacred cows, and as such I am challenging the use of Bikes as a detection resource (not as any other form of resource) &#8211; As I&#8217;ve always said I am open minded on their use, so prove their worth for detection or at least provide more &#8216;evidence based&#8217; information on them. I&#8217;m happy to come and look at them in action and the training but to be frank I&#8217;ve seen people cycling before and I&#8217;m not sure that the physical act of watching them search proves that they are a good detection resource.</p>
<p>As for &#8216;make finds&#8217; well any search resource can make a find. Even a blind man can find a misper if he trips over one.</p>
<p>Of course Dogs don&#8217;t cube, but when you have their scenting ability you don&#8217;t need to! Bikes cant be squeezed into a foot model but how do bikes compare to foot searchers? </p>
<p>If search managers are going to use bikes as a search resource and to deploy them effectively then there needs to be more infomation than &#8216;they make finds&#8217; and &#8216;cant be decided on forums&#8217; </p>
<p>Daryl &gt;&gt; Does the handler or the supporter &#8216;cube&#8217; when searching? (just interested in knowing)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d just like to see some objective information on the use of bikes for detection so that I (as a Search Manager) can decide on when/where to deploy bikes for detection. The fact that they are fast isnt good enough. </p>
<p>1. Would other search managers out there deploy bikes as a detection resource?</p>
<p>2. If so, what are the parameters that you use for this?</p>
<p>3. If you specifically dont use bikes for detection, why not?</p>
<p>Do UKLSI include the use of bikes as a detection resource in their SC training? If so, what are the parameters?</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnie</title>
		<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-634</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://re-search.org.uk/?p=159#comment-634</guid>
		<description>Bikes are a very effective search resource.  You search in a very different way, but you do make finds.  There seems to be an implication that if you are not cubing you are not searching.  If we look at how many dog walkers discover mispers (and assume that not many of these people are cubing) then we can assume that you can discover mispers without this technique.  Bike searching cannot be squeezed into a foot search model (a search dog doesn&#039;t cube, but still finds mispers).

I have not heard the &#039;half a cube&#039; expression before and hope not to hear it again. It is daft. ;-) A bike searcher sees a lot less than half a cube.  however, they cover a lot of ground.  Effectiveness is reduced, but efficiency is improved.  Whether this trade off is acceptable, and whether you deploy bikes, is a decision for a search management team on the ground to make, based on misper type, terrain, and personnel.  It cannot be decided on forums.  As with the Pope&#039;s view on condoms, I&#039;d say; if you don&#039;t play the game, don&#039;t write the rules!

For searching to progress and evolve, we need to have no &#039;sacred cows&#039; that cannot be challenged.  As such; trackers, dogs and bikes use different techniques to foot searchers. An effective and efficient search uses multiple resources in the best way.

If anyone would like to try out the game, contact me and we&#039;ll look to involve you in one of our bike training events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bikes are a very effective search resource.  You search in a very different way, but you do make finds.  There seems to be an implication that if you are not cubing you are not searching.  If we look at how many dog walkers discover mispers (and assume that not many of these people are cubing) then we can assume that you can discover mispers without this technique.  Bike searching cannot be squeezed into a foot search model (a search dog doesn&#8217;t cube, but still finds mispers).</p>
<p>I have not heard the &#8216;half a cube&#8217; expression before and hope not to hear it again. It is daft. <img src='http://re-search.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  A bike searcher sees a lot less than half a cube.  however, they cover a lot of ground.  Effectiveness is reduced, but efficiency is improved.  Whether this trade off is acceptable, and whether you deploy bikes, is a decision for a search management team on the ground to make, based on misper type, terrain, and personnel.  It cannot be decided on forums.  As with the Pope&#8217;s view on condoms, I&#8217;d say; if you don&#8217;t play the game, don&#8217;t write the rules!</p>
<p>For searching to progress and evolve, we need to have no &#8216;sacred cows&#8217; that cannot be challenged.  As such; trackers, dogs and bikes use different techniques to foot searchers. An effective and efficient search uses multiple resources in the best way.</p>
<p>If anyone would like to try out the game, contact me and we&#8217;ll look to involve you in one of our bike training events.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Robinson - ATBRU Search &#38; Rescue</title>
		<link>http://re-search.org.uk/2009/11/15/the-use-of-mountain-bikes-for-search-and-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Robinson - ATBRU Search &#38; Rescue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://re-search.org.uk/?p=159#comment-626</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kris, Jennie and Robert for your comments. 

To clarify we are not solely using bikes for search purposes. We will be a traditional search team as well. We are in quite a grey area in Worcestershire because we have a wide variety of search terrains from hills to rivers. 

We have started to talk to ALSAR particularly Adrian and Jo, who have been an enormous help! There is currently no land search team on our patch but there are 2 or 3 water teams who try to double up with land search. I am not sure how others feel about disciplines being mixed but I consider this to be a disadvantage as they cannot practise and develop to the same standards as a single discipline team. I am hoping that by working towards approval standards we can become an ALSAR team. We already have the best part of a team qualified well above first aid requirements, and radio trained. They are all CRB checked to, so it is the search element and controller / management element to work on.

Some interesting work going on at the moment and some very useful contacts and partnerships being made. Watch this space!

As goes the bikes ... well we are trying to view them with search and mountain bike heads on. We have about 40 years of experience on bikes between us so again ... Watch this space.

It is really good to open dialogue with other teams and I am very much looking forward to meeting you all at some point.

Leigh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kris, Jennie and Robert for your comments. </p>
<p>To clarify we are not solely using bikes for search purposes. We will be a traditional search team as well. We are in quite a grey area in Worcestershire because we have a wide variety of search terrains from hills to rivers. </p>
<p>We have started to talk to ALSAR particularly Adrian and Jo, who have been an enormous help! There is currently no land search team on our patch but there are 2 or 3 water teams who try to double up with land search. I am not sure how others feel about disciplines being mixed but I consider this to be a disadvantage as they cannot practise and develop to the same standards as a single discipline team. I am hoping that by working towards approval standards we can become an ALSAR team. We already have the best part of a team qualified well above first aid requirements, and radio trained. They are all CRB checked to, so it is the search element and controller / management element to work on.</p>
<p>Some interesting work going on at the moment and some very useful contacts and partnerships being made. Watch this space!</p>
<p>As goes the bikes &#8230; well we are trying to view them with search and mountain bike heads on. We have about 40 years of experience on bikes between us so again &#8230; Watch this space.</p>
<p>It is really good to open dialogue with other teams and I am very much looking forward to meeting you all at some point.</p>
<p>Leigh</p>
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